MSV has started to cut their INT from $85 to $75. Probably just a matter of time before their EXT is cut from $45 to $35. I agree with Bardell, the valuation companies will take it as low as they can before they see a tremendous drop in quality BPOs.
I have 1 company that sends me $30. I accept those in the hopes of getting added to their REO vendor list. The majority have remained constant since 2006.
The same works for exterior photos, a company eMailed me asking me if I will drive all over the area taking front street photos. One front, 1 left, 1 right, street two directions, address and a street sign. You resize, zipup and upload
24 hour turn around, gas and your time all for 5 bucks.
You are right Sam. I am seeing the $30 as well. I think all of us need to stand our ground. If we support each other they will need to make the adjustment. It may seem easy to do a BPO but I have to admit some are harder to do especially with the market not having as many sales. I am not looking for $100 but they need to be more reasonable than $30 - $40.
I have seen some BPO's come through at $30 or $25. I dont mean to be rude, but I truly find it insulting.
When I get an $80 interior, I feel good spending the time required to do the job right. I will not accept BPO's under $50. I just end up resenting it. Hope that isnt too much information! Because I still do a good job...I spend the time needed. And that is why I resent it. I never shirk on the time and quality and thought I put into any Real Estate Work.
Annecdote: FARVV started doing drive-bys at $45. I did quite a few. Then one day, it went to $50. I think they had trouble placing them, or saw quality problems, and realized, you get what you pay for. And in the end, they seem to value the agents work.
That will happen everywhere, I think.
Another annecdote: I had a company send me a bunch of cheap BPO's when I first started. I did them, like all newer agents, trying to get a listing. No listing, but can you beleive it took them 6 months and about 10 phone calls begging to get them to pay me?
You really have to watch out for yourself. Its a big bad world out there!!
It seems there is a common thread here and it's just a matter of time before BPO's drop in pay. Since REOPro now has 4009 members, you know there are a lot of agent who are joining the forum and looking for answers on what company to sign up with, who pays, etc. I've read numerous comments where agents have said they would be willing to do a BPO for free with the chance of getting a listing.
When an agent signs up with a company they read abouth through the forum, they may not have any idea if this company has listings or not. Not having done a BPO yet, they have no idea the amount of time it takes and may shortly realize they're not cut out for it and may decide to go back to more traditional methods of real estate. Or, they may just continue to lose money on assignments until they realize they have no business model and end up finding a different job. Meanwhile, those who have established themselves with companies will suffer the consequences.
I have two commnets. If BPO schools are going to make money off us being "certified or trained," and AM's are going to look for agents with "degrees", then along with it, there should be a pay scale for BPO's, one that offers today's going rate for fees. Otherwise what's the point? So the agent can now dish out more cash in hopes to be noticed and then have a 50% drop in pay? I think if someone offers to "train" you on how to do a BPO by paying for a school, the trainers should have already negotiated pay.
My other comment is this is an amazing forum and feels like the place we can make a difference as a group. I hope one of hte newly formed groups can help organize us in a way to make sure this drop in BPO's doesn't happen. I know I don't do nearly the numbers some of you do per month but I know many people rely on BPO's to pay salaries and keep their business churning.
Donna,
Each year I see some company want to pay less or stay competitive. There are always endless hungry realtors. who will do anything to survive. That goes for listing fee some only charge $350 for discounted service.
I think the problem is you have individuals who are single with no financial responsiblities accepting these low ball jobs. They really need to stop offering low balling fees, because most of us have financial responsiblities - We are not kids. The labor department really need to step in and control these companies by fining them. It is really taking advantage of the work force within our industry.
I heard the lenders pay each of these companies at least $200 for each property that needs a BPO or more. The lenders must know real estate agents are doing the work and must have in mind what amount needs to be paid for the work. I'm guessing they do expect us to be paid at a fair price for the work and no cutting corners or taking advantage of real estate agent by paying them less or 0.
Someone mentioned within the forum that NAR is looking at only Brokers can do BPOs, which can be reassigned to the agents in his/her office. If that is the case, NAR better make sure there is enough payment per BPO job for the Broker to do the split on the paycheck.
Noel, you are right some companies treat their vendors or independent contractors like employees, or worst. I know companies like evaluation solution, they want you to have the bpos ready in hours and it takes them months to pay, I did 4 bpos for them early in my bpo career, and I stop almost 2 years ago, but they keep email me orders everyday. I wonder who in my area is working for them, and who in the right mind would work for them.
I just receive this email from Titanium this morning "Hope you''re all enjoying the snow. If you can please take this time of being locked in the house to complete the training. Thank you" I don't even talk to my secretary and w2 assistance that way. But there are thousands of agents wanting to get those listings as Jesse mentioned here, that they are taking advantage of us.
Last year I did a little over 900 bpos, this year I am cutting my load, I just want to do 40 to 50 a month, and I am becoming more selective and I am only doing bpos for one bpo mill, then all the other are for companies that actually assign reo listings.
We can't neglect the short sales thou, I can make the same amount of money in $1,000,000 in REO sales as $750,000 short sales. in my market that is 10 REO listings and 4 short sale listings. I love doing REO listings a little more than short sales, but at the end of the day, the bills I have to pay don't care where the money comes from.
I think the problem is that some of the REO schools out there, because they only have the contact and information for the bpo mills, keep telling their students that the way into the REO business is to do bpos, and eventually the asset managers will take notice and give you listings. I know most of the bpos for the mills are for refinances, modifications, second opinion on an appraisal and short sale approval. I know the asset managers for that bank wont see them because they might even be in a different state all together, because it is a different department at the banks, and some of the loans go right to different investors like Freddy and Fannie, and they wont see the bpo, or once the property foreclose it might be sent to a marketer who will call his/her favorite agent to list the property, and wont even know who did the bpo months or years ago.
Because I was broke when I started listing REOs I used the BPO money to fund the expenses, utilities, contractors, education, conferences, platforms, etc. now I am using the bpos to fund my payroll. It took me about 6 months to learn that lesson, and the help of 3 experience REO agents who shared some of their knowledge with me.
Replies
24 hour turn around, gas and your time all for 5 bucks.
When I get an $80 interior, I feel good spending the time required to do the job right. I will not accept BPO's under $50. I just end up resenting it. Hope that isnt too much information! Because I still do a good job...I spend the time needed. And that is why I resent it. I never shirk on the time and quality and thought I put into any Real Estate Work.
Annecdote: FARVV started doing drive-bys at $45. I did quite a few. Then one day, it went to $50. I think they had trouble placing them, or saw quality problems, and realized, you get what you pay for. And in the end, they seem to value the agents work.
That will happen everywhere, I think.
Another annecdote: I had a company send me a bunch of cheap BPO's when I first started. I did them, like all newer agents, trying to get a listing. No listing, but can you beleive it took them 6 months and about 10 phone calls begging to get them to pay me?
You really have to watch out for yourself. Its a big bad world out there!!
When an agent signs up with a company they read abouth through the forum, they may not have any idea if this company has listings or not. Not having done a BPO yet, they have no idea the amount of time it takes and may shortly realize they're not cut out for it and may decide to go back to more traditional methods of real estate. Or, they may just continue to lose money on assignments until they realize they have no business model and end up finding a different job. Meanwhile, those who have established themselves with companies will suffer the consequences.
I have two commnets. If BPO schools are going to make money off us being "certified or trained," and AM's are going to look for agents with "degrees", then along with it, there should be a pay scale for BPO's, one that offers today's going rate for fees. Otherwise what's the point? So the agent can now dish out more cash in hopes to be noticed and then have a 50% drop in pay? I think if someone offers to "train" you on how to do a BPO by paying for a school, the trainers should have already negotiated pay.
My other comment is this is an amazing forum and feels like the place we can make a difference as a group. I hope one of hte newly formed groups can help organize us in a way to make sure this drop in BPO's doesn't happen. I know I don't do nearly the numbers some of you do per month but I know many people rely on BPO's to pay salaries and keep their business churning.
Each year I see some company want to pay less or stay competitive. There are always endless hungry realtors. who will do anything to survive. That goes for listing fee some only charge $350 for discounted service.
I heard the lenders pay each of these companies at least $200 for each property that needs a BPO or more. The lenders must know real estate agents are doing the work and must have in mind what amount needs to be paid for the work. I'm guessing they do expect us to be paid at a fair price for the work and no cutting corners or taking advantage of real estate agent by paying them less or 0.
Someone mentioned within the forum that NAR is looking at only Brokers can do BPOs, which can be reassigned to the agents in his/her office. If that is the case, NAR better make sure there is enough payment per BPO job for the Broker to do the split on the paycheck.
http://reopro.ning.com/forum/topics/valligent-1
I just receive this email from Titanium this morning "Hope you''re all enjoying the snow. If you can please take this time of being locked in the house to complete the training. Thank you" I don't even talk to my secretary and w2 assistance that way. But there are thousands of agents wanting to get those listings as Jesse mentioned here, that they are taking advantage of us.
Last year I did a little over 900 bpos, this year I am cutting my load, I just want to do 40 to 50 a month, and I am becoming more selective and I am only doing bpos for one bpo mill, then all the other are for companies that actually assign reo listings.
We can't neglect the short sales thou, I can make the same amount of money in $1,000,000 in REO sales as $750,000 short sales. in my market that is 10 REO listings and 4 short sale listings. I love doing REO listings a little more than short sales, but at the end of the day, the bills I have to pay don't care where the money comes from.
I think the problem is that some of the REO schools out there, because they only have the contact and information for the bpo mills, keep telling their students that the way into the REO business is to do bpos, and eventually the asset managers will take notice and give you listings. I know most of the bpos for the mills are for refinances, modifications, second opinion on an appraisal and short sale approval. I know the asset managers for that bank wont see them because they might even be in a different state all together, because it is a different department at the banks, and some of the loans go right to different investors like Freddy and Fannie, and they wont see the bpo, or once the property foreclose it might be sent to a marketer who will call his/her favorite agent to list the property, and wont even know who did the bpo months or years ago.
Because I was broke when I started listing REOs I used the BPO money to fund the expenses, utilities, contractors, education, conferences, platforms, etc. now I am using the bpos to fund my payroll. It took me about 6 months to learn that lesson, and the help of 3 experience REO agents who shared some of their knowledge with me.
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